Time Machine Project

[timemachinewells]

Now Frankie,

How to make sense of your somewhat confusing post where you mix in rumours with hearsay and tweak a number of facts to make them go along with your line of thought…

How many models did he make ? The Starlog article mentions a dozen by 1980, although it is my understanding that many of those were among his early experiments in 1965. I personally know of seven, of which I have seen six.

It is very misleading to somehow suggest that the number of models he made is a measure of their quality since Harvey did not make his reputation as a Time Machine builder but as a miniature and prototype builder. I have seen many of his impressive miniature furniture work. His skill at the latter can be applied to anything he does - just like any other miniaturist’s. Harvey has always said that his making of Time Machine models was an occasional thing. I have never met anybody in the world who made a profession out of making Time Machine models. Seems to me that their rarity makes them that much more unique. Besides, I know of no one who has made more than he has unless they used cast parts.

Yes, I have been in touch with some owners of Mayo miniatures but I do not know his clients any more than I know yours. And yes, I do know some people awaiting models and some who have received them.

Not sure why you then jump to an obscure hearsay regarding “someone being loaned a set of prints, etc” although I know exactly what you are talking about. But how the story goes and how it happened are two different things. You are talking about the MGM blueprints. And those were NOT confidential. They were around in the sixties and seventies and Tom Sherman who worked on the restoration of the Machine had a copy as well - a long time before those were published. It was not anything secret. I asked David Hutchison about this in 1995 and he told me he didn’t even remember if he got those prints from Bob Burns or Harvey Mayo (ref.: his letter to me dated Feb 11, 1995). But at the time, it seems some people wanted to be quite possessive and secretive about such information, when in reality it should have been given out for all to see. And that’s exactly what David Hutchison did and I commend him for doing so. It really is quite irrelevant to the present discussion.

Now, regarding the lever, let me quote from your post of May 17, 2004:

“The lever is really nice ..it was made by a fellow named Harvey..he is mentioned on this site a few times ..look under original machine restoration and under the miniature..he is full of machine knowledge... as well as others here ..he is also a talented model maker”

So, are you saying today that in 2004 you had no capacity to judge for yourself ?

In respect to the posts you mention, people weren’t seriously pointing out flaws in your lever but made fun of the fact you were boasting about it a bit too much ! For example, some said yours wasn’t exact because it didn’t have pasted-on material like the original one. Somebody even said it didn’t have the Morlock’s head in the crystal. One thing they did point out was that the colour of some of the parts should be silver, not brass. But you admitted yourself that it was YOU who asked Harvey to do it in brass even though Harvey well knew that it should be aluminium. Again, your post from May 3 2004:
“I can tell you the lever is as close to exact[barring the aluminium] that i decided not to have it made of...as close as anyone has yet to make...it is correct in all dimensions”

And you were quite right. The lever was indeed as close to exact as had ever been done. Besides, anyone can judge for himself by looking it up in the directory. As to price, well, that again was an amount you agreed to and which sounds reasonable to me. True, Don’s version sold for less on eBay, but that’s because there was only a single bid on it and Don took the risk of putting a low starting bid. Besides, if you felt you could get a better price from Don, why did you not commission Don to do the lever in the first place ?

Now, getting back to the model you ordered. The question of time or “enough time” is relative. True, Harvey takes a long time and - most people think - too long. And you got impatient. Understandable. But, let’s face it, if you insist on taking delivery of a model when it is not completed, you get an incomplete model ! Not that I do not concur that the long wait can be frustrating. I have had a model on order from Granite City for the past fifteen years; consequently, four years sounds like a breeze to me ! But I don’t see the point of taking delivery of a model in its incomplete state and spending the next few years being unhappy and complaining about it. Seems to me an extra few months would have done the job and made you much happier in the long run.

But your unfinished model, if you wish to send me pictures of it - clear ones - go ahead. I’ll be glad to look at them and give you my opinion and see if I can help you resolve the problem.

As to Chris Perotta’s model, it’s a similar problem. Chris was moving to Texas and insisted in taking the model with him even though the artwork was not done. Again, it was his choice. Nonetheless, here follows a quote from Chris as to his impressions of the model he owned for eight years as described in his eBay listing (#7574862550):

“Built by Harvey Mayo, this little gem is a faithful reproduction of the one used in the film. This is not a toy or a kit build. It’s a meticulously handcrafted, highly detailed, functioning mechanical jewel. It has spent most of its years tucked away or under glass, so, it’s virtually dust free and works perfectly! I commissioned it many years ago and have been proud to own it ever since, but alas, there comes a time, when things like these, have to be passed on to others that have the same passions and interests.”

Now, to the sundial story:

You (and TymerC) really are going to a lot of effort to try to work this story out so as to make yourself appear totally innocent and make Harvey out to be the “real bad guy” !!!

So, what you are saying essentially is that, when you sent an email to Don and he wouldn’t tell you the whereabouts of the sundial, you had no idea that it was most likely because he wanted to purchase it himself ???

Seems to me if you were concerned at all about that, you would have asked Don directly if he was interested in it or would have let him know when you found out it was for sale. It’s not as if you didn’t know him - given you got all the information about the sundial from the research and write-up Don put up on his website. It should have given you a little hint that he had more than a passing interest in it.

Oh, and the “bad guy” also “made you” buy the clocks that Don wanted to have, too ? I can see you went through a terrible ordeal with all these forced purchases of items Don meticulously researched and described on his website !!! I suspect Don is shedding a tear for you this very moment.

But if you really honestly feel remorse that you misunderstood the situation, surely you will want to make amends and offer Don an opportunity to buy back the sundial and clocks from you !

[colemanzone]

I received the following from Mr. Bob Burns and he asked me to post it here for him.


The machine I bought from Harvey was already built by the time I saw it. I think I paid him a $1000 for it. It's a nice model but I must say I've seen better ones since then. Here's my history with Harvey. I'm the one that set up that interview in Starlog with my friend David Hutchison. As for those blueprints used in the article. They were mine and Tom Scherman begged me to loan them to Harvey. Tom told me that Harvey owed him some money and told me this might help him in getting it back. Tom was a dear friend so I loaned them to Harvey with the promise that he would not publish them anywhere as I was going to do that in an article that I was planning on doing that same year. By the way, I got those blueprints from George Pal. I guess Harvey's ego got the best of him as he told David Hutchison that they were his and to go ahead and use them. When I finally got a hold of Harvey after the article came out he said that David wanted to use them and he (Harvey) was so excited to have the article done on him that he went ahead and said to use them. He also told me that he didn't think I would mind and totally forgot that I had told him not to use them. He seems to have a very short memory. I talked to David about that episode about a few years before he passed away. He was pretty upset about it.


Now let's talk about those original "caps" for the Time Machine. They weren't from the pods as I still have both of those. The one that I "loaned" Harvey was from the end of the control panel. Here again, the reason I loaned it to him was because of dear Tom. He was only supposed to have it for a couple of weeks to take measurements from it. After about a month I had Tom call him to find out when I would get it back as I was starting to worry a bit. Tom told me that Harvey was having "problems" and hadn't had a chance to do it as yet. In hindsight, that should have sounded the alarm bells for me but I'm a real trusting guy so it didn't occur to me. Well, months passed and when I did get to Harvey myself he told me this bad news. It seems that someone broke into his garage and stole many of his tools and, guess what? The cap was also stolen. Now what would a petty thief want with a plastic cap? That's exactly what I asked Harvey. he had no answer for that at all. I'm sorry but if I believed that I would have bought that "bridge" as well. I have a feeling it will show up someday in someone's collection. I was with Don Coleman at one of the autograph shows that had Rod Taylor and Alan Young as guests. I hadn't seen Harvey in years and he walked up to me all smiles and said the he would like to come over and see my place so I said as soon as you return the cap that you borrowed from me years ago you can come over. He didn't see to have an answer for that. I had to fill Don in on what had happened. Ah! Life goes on.


Well, that's my story on Mr. Mayo. I hope this clears up some of the mystery about my involvement. He's a good model maker but not such a good guy in my humble opinion.

[TymerC]

Hey Francois ! Theres some FACTS for you right from the horses mouth !! I hadn't had a chance yet to respond to your last "novel" you posted but I'm wondering if I need to....Bob Burns said it all !!! Bravo Bob !!!!! I can't find the words to thank you !!!

P.S. Bob....give Harvey the benefit of the doubt will ya? There coulda been a rash of plastic end cap thieves that year! My guess is somewhere in LA....there must be a burglar building his own Time Machine with stolen parts ....or you think there's a Time Machine chop shop somewhere near Harvey's home?

[frankie]

Thank you Bob.
In response to what Francois said about Chris Perrotta and the selling of his Harvey Mayo model i would to give you this response from Chris himself:
"Naturally, I only mentioned the good points about Harvey's model in my eBay ad.
I was trying to sell it. I didn't want to poison my own well with information
regarding Harvey 's business practices (his modus operandi). Anyone can
understand the reasoning with that. Just because the points regarding his model
were positive it makes no statement whatsoever on the difficulties in which I
endured to get it completed - or the motive for selling it. In fact, it was the
bad taste Harvey left me with, that I did sell it". Frank, you can quote me on
that.

Chris

[frankie]

Well Francois,I guess you know how George Foreman felt when Ali knocked him senseless.I am grateful Bob Burns came forward with the truth.It seems you were the one who only knew of the rumorsBut the again look at the source..When i was dealing with Harvey he used to ask me "Either you think i am a crook or you do not"Well i guess the answer is very clear now.So it looks like the only misunderstanding now is the Sundial and the Lever.I started my Time Machine collection in 2004.So when i had Harvey make the lever i was a novice.So my fault for not doing my homework.I read on Dons site now"Years went by and around 1998 or so, while channel surfing, Mary spotted the sun dial in an episode of Diagnosis Murder"
I bought the Sundial in 2004 i believe,Six years after Don found it.I can only tell you again Harvey told me where it was ,He drove to the prop shop,he called me from there and put phil on the phone,He asked if i wanted to buy the Sundial ,I said"yes" He said "I will let it go for 4,000 dollars" I said "ok" Harvey then took delivery of it,took it back to his house,cleaned it ,made a new Brass Rod for the center,packed it in a crate and shipped it.I knew Harvey and Don were friends but i had never spoken to Don about anything.If Harvey was his friend why didnt he call Don and tell him i was looking to buy it?I asked Harvey more than once why Don did not buy it.So i thought his answer was true.
As for why i did not get Don to make a Lever for me?
I asked Harvey about Having Don make a model for me.His reply was "Don does not have the connection to the machine that i have"
"Have you ever seen Dons work?
So me being the novice,I went with Harvey.
So my only question to you is:
You speak of Seven Mayo models but you give no proverence.
Can you provide any,As i have went through all the old messages and all the old updates and have not seen anything on Mayo models.I would think at least one of the seven you know of would have sent in pictures or posted about getting a model.Lastly if Harvey is slow in making models,why does he stop talking to the people who have given him money?
I had my Lawyer send him an email,and two letters,Guess what? No response,The court sent him a summons ,Guess what,No response,
Then he was Served by a Constable at home,Guess what.No response.Why would a person who only needs more time not respond?
Perhaps you can ask him.
So here i am Four years later with a 3/4 done model ,No Tantalus box,
And a lot of aggravation.And out the 6,500 dollars i paid him,IN GOOD FAITH, up front.

[TymerC]

Hello Frankie,

Just been knocked almost dead with a bad cold but I mustered up enough strength to add something to your post. Where you mention Don and his work. I've seen some of Don's work in person and I can say he's very talented....or do I need to "VERIFY MY FACTS"?

[TymerC]

Well people my cold is going away enough for me to finish my response so here it is:
(Anyone while reading this should hum the Twilight Zone theme to themselves)

We are traveling thru another dimension …….a dimension not only of sight and sound, but of mind ……a .journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination…..at the sign post up ahead, your next stop….The Francois Zone!

Francois are you in your own little zone? You must be or suffering from the biggest misguided hero worship in history. Or could it be you have another agenda? I’m just now starting to figure out why your so pro Mayo. Could it be you are also waiting for a Mayo model and might not want to piss off the Model God?

I have said before that I was aware of at least 2 others that have been waiting for a model for around 10 years. One I’ve already talked to via e-mail and doesn’t want to come forward…could the other one be you? Just a guess but have I got the FACTS right? Am I correct or not? Are you that 2nd person that has been waiting 10 years for his model?...inquiring minds want to know.

As far as my “potentially slanderous” remarks…..its only slander if it isn’t true. I also said I “questioned the quality of his work”…..if you want facts then maybe you should start with yourself and get your facts straight about what I said instead of twisting my words around. Honestly I don’t think Harvey is a poor artist as you think I stated. I just don’t think he’s the almighty lord of model making as you seem to worship him as. And as for my “cover of anonymity”…lol ..Harvey reads these posts and knows damn well who I am…so does Chris, Frank, Don. I didn’t know I was hiding under cover. Anyone on this website is welcome to e-mail me anytime. Would posting my full name here mean anything to anyone else since my name doesn’t mean diddly. I’ve certainly have never met you but I sure don’t think your under cover are you? I’m also assuming your real name is Francois..but heck what do I care what you call yourself.

Now about me “ordering” a model from Harvey, again get your facts straight. I repeatedly said Harvey called me and offered me one at a very tempting price…..unfortunately at the time I was suffering from the same blind worship affliction you seem to have….till I woke up and wised up. How much did he possibly take you for?

Yes it’s also possible to know someone for 20 years and never see their work in person when your dealing with Harvey. The many times I did request to see his work over those 2 decades was met with lame excuse after lame excuse….. that at the time I believed since this man was supposedly a trusted friend. I even tried many times to visit Harvey at his home and he was always “busy”….I drive 150 miles and he hasn’t 5 mins to see me? Always the same tired excuses, I’m busy”, my wife wants me to run errands, my kids in trouble, and on and on and on. Forget about making appointments…..he won’t make them. Once I was even passing by outside his home and called from my cel….I’m rushing out right now maybe another time”…was his excuse…yet he talked to me for 45 mins from inside his home knowing full well I was outside….gee he had to rush out huh? The only time when we did talked in person is when he came to see me at my watch show. We’d still be chatting on the phone until I made the mistake of giving Harvey money and doing business with him…..until then I hadn’t known Harvey had already taken other peoples money and delivered nothing. So here we are over 3 years later and even paying Harvey $2400 couldn’t buy me that request. Why don’t you try asking Harvey if he’ll e-mail you some (current) pics of how far he’s got on anyone’s model?.That one simple request has been refused repeatedly by him…..his regular excuse?....”I don’t show unfinished work”….lol. How bout showing me “started” work Harv!

I was going to comment more until Bob Burns blew your VERIFIABLE FACTS away about the plans and the missing cap. In my opinion there can’t be anything more lower than doing anything dishonest to a good respected person such as Bob Burns. You owe him an apology for basically saying in one of your last posts …” it seems some people wanted to be quite possessive and secretive about such information, when in reality it should have been given out for all to see”. …….according to Bob Burns he was planning on sharing it in an article he planned huh? Lets just say hypothetically he didn't want to share the plans.....who are you to criticize what he does with his own property or property in his possession !!?? I honestly doubt you’ll apologize and probably want to debate even what Mr Burns has said.

Lastly about me being a Watchmaker/Clockmaker……are you planning on being a customer and need proof of my work or references? Don’s seen it cause I’m not afraid to show my work. Well until you are planning on using my services then frankly I don’t have to prove anything to you, give a damn what you think or worry if you believe me.

I really think its futile to comment on anything else since anything we say here won’t convince you otherwise and you’ll go right on being Harvey’s biggest fan.

ALL YOU PEOPLE READING THIS PLEASE KEEP A SHARP EYE OUT FOR ANY SALES , AUCTIONS OR ON THE INTERNET.....IF YOU HAPPEN TO SEE A PLASTIC CAP THAT LOOKS FAMILIAR , BEING SOLD AS AN ORIGINAL FILM PIECE OR MOVIE MEMORABILIA, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO INFORM DON OR MYSELF OF IT. BOB BURNS DESERVES TO HAVE HIS PROPERTY RETURNED.

[frankie]

Francois,
What has happened to you?[and Nick]
Has the truth[or Havey]silenced you?
I can tell you i have heard from others who have given Harvey money and received nothing.One poor fella has been waiting nine years!.Funny his story is the same as mine, Bob Burns and Tymerc.Harvey is down,things are not going well,he is in need of money,my son,my house,the floods,it seems he has used the same stories on all of us.I did receive emails to send pictures of the model i received from him.I sent them out to three different people.I figured it would be easier just to send them to Don so that he can post them for all to see.Perhaps you can ask Harvey if he enjoyed the Lobsters i sent him while he was working on "only my projects".I would like to send you the pictures of the Tantalus box as well but i guess FOUR years is not enough time to build one.
Its funny that you try to defend him when there is so much negative about him from credible sources,unlike the six you know of that have have models.I find it very strange that if these "Collectors "have them they would not want to show them off.Dons site if full of collectors who send him pictures everyday.Where are these models that you know of?
As Tymerc says "Are they in the Twilight Zone?

[timemachinewells]

Frankie, in response to your comments above, none of your guesses are correct. I simply took a break from the message board as I do have a busy professional and personal life and only have a limited amount of time to deal with these posts. I would much rather work on the several updates I was preparing for this website, but I guess they will have to wait…

In reference to the seven models I mentioned (owned by collectors), I have pictures of all seven. Unlike you, many collectors are private people and don’t want their collections to become public knowledge. The models showcased on this site are rarely from collectors but from fans that build their own.

In spite of this, pictures of most of Harvey’s models have been published at one time or another. On this site alone there are three.

Yeah, Harvey told me your lobster tale a long time ago. It has been pinching him ever since.

Here follow my responses to your posts…

[timemachinewells]

A RESPONSE TO BOB BURNS’ COMMENTS ABOUT HARVEY MAYO

A) THE BLUEPRINTS

Mr. Burns,

With all due respect to your version of events, I have to question its accuracy, primarily given that (contrary to what you imply) the blueprints did NOT accompany the article on Harvey Mayo that appeared in the August 1980 issue of Starlog magazine. The blueprints were printed in a later book by David Hutchison that was published at the end of that year and in a segment that was NOT about Harvey Mayo but about George Pal’s movie adaptation of H.G. Wells’s classic “The Time Machine” – a book that also contains some of your contributions.

In the name of fairness, I did some double-checking of these records and also contacted Harvey Mayo regarding this episode and found that his account of the events differs somewhat from yours…

First, David Hutchison visited Harvey at his home in the fall of 1979 with the sole intention of viewing firsthand and writing an article on Harvey’s miniature work.

Having corresponded with David myself over several years, he told me that he was a long-time fan of the Time Machine and was intrigued at the prospect of seeing a working model of it. In fact, he was so interested in Harvey Mayo’s models that he brought with him his Stereo Realist camera and took several 3D shots of Harvey holding his Time Machine miniature.

After the interview and photo session, David asked if he could look at Harvey’s collection of images pertaining to the Pal movie. Of course, Harvey acquiesced. David then asked if he could take pictures of some of his collection. Among the images of interest to him were copies of the blueprints. Harvey agreed but – out of courtesy to you - specified that he should keep them for himself and not publish them. Otherwise, he saw nothing wrong in showing the blueprints to a fellow fan that also happened to be an acquaintance of yours.

According to Harvey, a few weeks or months later, you purchased the Time Machine miniature from him. Consequently, by the time the article appeared, Harvey no longer had the model in his possession.

In April 1980, Harvey received a letter from David Hutchison enclosing a first draft of the planned article, which reads as follows:

April 21 1980:
Harvey:
Here’s the galley. Let me know if you need any changes. It is running with the shot I took of you at your bench with the miniature machine in your hand and your shots of the miniature writing desk.
Hutch

Then, in June he received two other letters as follows:

9 June 1980
Harve:
Enclosed is copy of the press proof. It appears in Starlog #37 on sale July 8, which means about ten days earlier than that in CA. Hope you like it.
Hutch

25 June 1980
Harve:
Here’s a press tear sheet. I’ll send some extra copies when they come in.
Hutch

I have seen all of the above letters from David (on Starlog stationary) and none mention any blueprints.

Entitled “Mayo’s miniatures”, the article ran in the August 1980 issue. That issue appeared on newsstands in July. (This was in fact my own introduction to the work of Harvey Mayo.)

The article describes Harvey’s miniature furniture work as well as his fascination for the Time Machine and his creation of working models inspired by it. It features a picture of Harvey in his studio holding the miniature Time Machine as well as three other pictures of his miniature work… but NO BLUEPRINTS or any mention of blueprints !!!

From that point on, Harvey did not hear anymore from David Hutchison.

At the end of the year, the Starlog Guidebook SFX #2 was published.

The SFX Guidebooks were a special interest publication from Starlog and were mostly available by mail order. Among its many topics, SFX #2 contains a four-page section on The Time Machine.

The section – entitled simply “The Time Machine” - begins with a brief account of Wells’s novel and features a picture of Rod Taylor in the Machine on the first page. On the second page at the top is a picture of Gene Warren in the refurbished Time Machine prop. That picture is credited “Courtesy of Bob Burns”. At the bottom appears one of David’s pictures of Harvey in his studio (as had appeared earlier) with a small caption echoing the Starlog article.

That is IT, as far as any reference to Harvey Mayo in the context of the Starlog Guidebook !

Now, on the following two pages appears the object of contention: those blueprints ! However, when one reads the accompanying text, credit is rightly given to William Ferrari as creator, and the MGM art department; but nowhere is there any mention of Harvey Mayo. Instead, the rest of the text is about… BOB BURNS and the refurbished prop !!! In fact, Mr. Burns’s name is mentioned no less than THREE times on that page alone.

Therefore, how Mr. Burns can suggest that Mr. Mayo stood to gain (or “let his ego get the better of him” – as he writes) from the publication of these blueprints totally escapes me. First, they were NOT published along with the article on Mr. Mayo and secondly, in this book, they are NOT associated with Mr. Mayo but with Mr. Burns himself !

Harvey insists that he never was contacted by David Hutchison regarding anything pertaining to the publication of this guidebook including the possible use of the blueprints. In fact he was never sent a copy of this book and only found out about its publication some time later, through acquaintances.

Of course, he was distraught when he found that David had used the blueprints against his wish but it was too late to do anything about it and it was clear to Harvey that David had simply forgotten his request not to publish them. As for David’s position, I queried him about it in 1995 and he replied the following in his letter of February 10:

"The studio drawings that we first published in my Special Effects Photo Guidebook vol 2 (1980) and then later in Starlog for the Glassar/Chaides story have been in my files for a very long time. I do not remember whether my photostats of the drawings came from Bob Burns or Harvey Mayo. It could have been either."

One has to keep in perspective that David saw the blueprints in the fall of 1979 – a full year before he included them in the guidebook. It appears that, by then, he had simply forgotten their origin. That is certainly what the letter he wrote me suggests.

At the time of publication, it is most likely that David’s main concern as editor was to give due credit to the creator of the blueprints, William Ferrari, and to the copyright owner, MGM - which he did. Otherwise, there is no mention whatsoever in the guidebook as to who might have supplied him copies of the blueprints. However, it seems to me that anyone reading David’s text would assume that they either came from MGM or from Bob Burns himself. One has to keep in mind that the blueprints were already twenty years old and not by any means considered to be secret or exclusive studio documents. Also, Bob Burns may have owned copies of them but they are not his intellectual property. The copyright belongs to the studio.

Given that your account confuses the article written on Harvey Mayo’s miniature work with the later publication of David’s SFX #2 guidebook (in which the blueprints are associated with you rather than with Mr. Mayo), I find it hard to validate your version of the sequence of events that took place.

As for the article you planned to write “later that year”, it seems it would most likely have appeared before the book was published – given that David’s book came out at the very end of 1980. Besides, publishing the blueprints in more than one place would have helped give them greater exposure, since the Starlog guidebooks were not widely available in those days.

In retrospect, it appears that the publication of these blueprints in David’s guidebook had very little effect – given that the only two Time Machine models produced in the eighties (those by Robert Sabbia and by Alan Terry) were not based at all on the MGM blueprints.

B) THE PLASTIC END CAP

It seems to me that it might be fairer to place this episode in its proper context:

When the Time Machine prop was prepared for auction in 1970, it was missing its original control console. A new one had to be quickly put together by Tom Scherman. Tom had no plans and only had a very short time in which to complete the work, so the result was rather poor.

When the Time Machine prop was purchased by Bob Burns some years later, it was decided to refurbish it rapidly so that it could be used for a Halloween show. Therefore, some friends and acquaintances of Bob got together to revamp it. Among the components missing from the recovered prop were the seat and the original control console. Consequently, both would have to be rebuilt from scratch. Tom Scherman volunteered to make a new seat while Harvey would make the new control console.

After the prop was recovered, Bob Burns was given some spare parts that were left over from when the original Machine was built. Among them was a set of spare end caps for the missing control console. (For those not familiar with this, the end caps are the white plastic domes with black lines that are mounted at each end of the cylindrical console.)

Since Harvey Mayo would build the new console, he asked to borrow one of the spare end caps from which to take measurements and make duplicate ones for the new console – which he did. The new console was completed and installed on the revamped Machine just in time for the show and has remained an important part of the Machine ever since.

Harvey concedes that, at that time, he put off returning the original spare cap and just left it in his storage area. Then it got put away for later but instead was forgotten about. He was raising a family at the time and the plastic end cap was not the only thing on his mind.

Some time later, there was a robbery at his home. Among the stolen items was a box that contained a number of tools as well as the end cap.

No, thieves would have had no interest in the end cap. It just happened to be in the same box as some tools and precision instruments. The thieves just took the whole box. They did not carefully pick and choose; thieves seldom do. They just grabbed whatever they could and most likely later dumped what they could not resell.

True, it was a mistake for Harvey to omit to return the cap in a timely manner and one that he certainly regrets. But to suggest that he intentionally conspired to steal it in order to sell it to some collector is downright preposterous !

First of all, of what interest could such a cap (and a single one) be to ANYONE but the owner of the other cap – Bob Burns himself ? And, if some collector were to have an interest in such a cap, how in the world could he verify its authenticity other than by checking with the owner of the other cap and the original Machine – Bob Burns ?

And, if anyone were to argue that a potential buyer might not know that Bob Burns has the other cap, then that would also mean this buyer would have no way of telling if that cap were authentic or a reproduction – especially given that it is well-known that the original console was discarded. So, how much simpler would it have been for Harvey to make a few more reproductions of the original end cap and sell a set of them - if that were his intention ?

But - let’s be logical here - why in the world would he want to do this in the first place ??? Is there any research out there that shows that plastic end caps are a sought-after collector’s item ? I mean – we’re talking about a plain white plastic cap here, not an elaborate or intricate brass or bronze contraption !!!

The sole reason Harvey borrowed the spare end cap was his concern over making faithful reproductions of it for the new console he was building for the Time Machine prop… Unfortunately, he lost the end cap. And now, thirty years later, he is still being hounded for that single oversight !

Frankly, Mr. Burns, are you actually serious when you make such a far-fetched insinuation ?

What does amaze me is that you would make such a big deal of those minor incidents so many years later yet completely avoid recognizing the substantial contributions Harvey has made to your refurbished prop !

Indeed, the control console Harvey built is what has made the Time Machine prop presentable all those years. It appears prominently in the well-known portrait of George Pal at the controls of the Machine as well as that of Rod Taylor on the Journey Back video box and many others (including yours). And yet, never once have you acknowledged in print Harvey Mayo for its construction.

(note: the only time Harvey Mayo’s contributions were ever acknowledged in respect to his work on the Time Machine prop was in an article by David Hutchison in the December 1978 issue of Starlog – although it did not mention his building of the console. His name is noticeably absent from the list of credits given in the Journey Back documentary. I have not checked Bob Burns’s book in this respect, perhaps somebody can tell me if credits are given to him therein ?)

C) THE MODEL

Glad to see you at least acknowledge that the model you bought from Harvey is a “nice model”, but why be so dismissive about it ? It seems it was good enough for you to display on numerous special occasions over these many years as well as showcase it in several documentaries – where the sole name being associated with it was your own…

(Note: The model bought by Bob Burns in 1980 was never credited by him to Harvey except in his recent book. In every other case, credit was given to Bob Burns alone. Even on his website - as of this writing - no credit is given to Harvey for the model displayed.)

So, you’ve seen better models ? Please, show us !

The only person I have come across who offered a more sophisticated scratch-built working model than Harvey’s is George Chaides from Scotland. But his model is much larger (1:8 against 1:12 for Harvey’s model) and not self-contained (it must be plugged into an external power supply). Furthermore, whereas Harvey makes each part himself, George has the parts built and assembled by other people. Many of the parts on George’s model are cast – including the seat – not hand-carved or hand-tooled by him. (And, since the topic of this thread is “long waiting periods”, I should remind all that I have had a model on order from George Chaides for the past fifteen years !!!)

I am still waiting to see a completely hand-built model that is on par with or surpasses the work of Harvey Mayo. In fact, I am eager to see one. So, Mr. Burns, if you have seen better, please back-up your statement with references. We would all be pleased to see such models.

[timemachinewells]

TymerC

Are you planning to grow up anytime soon or is your only way of having a discussion to ridicule, denigrate or otherwise insult anyone who holds an opinion that is different than your own or who presents facts that contradict your insinuations ?

Given one cannot hold a discussion with you, I wonder why I bother addressing your tiresome tirades, but here I go anyway…

What do I mean by “verifiable facts” ?

Do I really need to explain this ? I guess I do. Let me point out the difference between facts and anecdotes. Anecdotes are stories of events based on the recollections of an individual. Facts are the known records. By known records, I mean video recordings, magazine articles, books or personal signed letters that can be double-checked by anyone. Did you ever bother double-checking any of the references I gave ? Of course, you did not. But when recollections contradict the known records, chances are that the recollections may be somewhat inaccurate.

Could I be the other person waiting for a model from Harvey ?

Well, that would be amazing, wouldn’t it ? Because I have known Harvey for over eleven years and have been in touch with him all this time. Harvey answers all my faxes letters and emails and also has called me countless times over the years even though I reside in Canada – all at his expense. So, if I am indeed that other person, that would seem to very much contradict your claim that he won’t talk to anyone after one has placed an order, wouldn’t it ?

And, if that were so, well maybe it would mean the problem may lie with your attitude, wouldn’t it ? One thing for sure: if you address him the way you address me, no wonder he would want to avoid talking to you.

In a private email to me you said that Harvey talks to me because I live far away and therefore am “no threat to him”. Yet – as I mentioned - I have an acquaintance that DID get a model from Harvey in 2002 and just got ANOTHER one in mid-December. (He confirmed it to me on December 21st.) Interestingly, this acquaintance lives in Europe – several thousand more miles from Harvey than I do. Seems to me – according to your theory (as you outlined in your email) – that this collector should have been a “prime target”; yet he has received not one but two models so far !

As to me twisting your words, I don’t need to do that. Your words are there for all to see. So when you write that “anything can look good on film” or that you “question the quality of his work”, it means exactly that. But it does not change the fact that you did order a model from him of your own free will and, therefore, it must be because you did admire his work at the time. Why else ?

As for you taking exception to the word “ordering”, well, when you agreed to commission a work, that is essentially what you did. If you now wish to call it “blind worship”, that’s up to you, but it seems to suggest that you think little of yourself – which I am sure you don’t. I mean, judging from the way you write, you really don’t strike me as one ever having been a “blind worshipper”…

So I gather what you mean is that, somehow, Harvey must have hypnotized you into placing an order and that, clearly, his will power was much greater than yours. In this respect you remind me of Frankie who keeps insisting that it is somehow Harvey’s fault that he bought the Sundial for himself. Yeah… right !

But I do concede (and I have said so repeatedly) that you are justified – like all others having ordered models from Harvey Mayo, George Chaides or Ed Turner – to be upset over the long waiting period for a model to be completed.

Now, what do I mean by “cover of anonymity” ?

Not the fact that you don’t identify yourself by name so much as that the public reading your posts doesn’t know who you are (you had never posted before or contributed anything to this website) and yet you spend your time attempting to slander a long-time fan and artist whose work has been admired for years by fellow fans of The Time Machine.

As far as we know, you could be anybody - even a would-be competitor of Mr. Mayo, perhaps ??? or helping out a friend of yours who is ?

In this respect, I couldn’t help but notice that, in your very first post to me, you wrote:

“I'm already discussing with other parties about the possibility of producing a Wah Chang machine w/box but would like to know if anyone might be interested please feel free to drop me an e-mail...”

Anyone reading the above might suspect that you may have an agenda of your own. Indeed, by slandering Mr. Mayo, you or your “other parties” stand to gain by enticing potential clients away from him. So, no, people reading your posts don’t know who you are and what your true motives are. They can only guess…

You even emailed me, daring me to ask Harvey to tell me your name and phone number, claiming he would make up all sorts of excuses not to do so. Well, I did as you asked and Harvey emailed back the full information on you within an hour. Then, when he did and flat out contradicted your argument, you came up with another lame excuse, claiming you had forbidden Harvey to give out your name and phone number and therefore it proved your point ! Really ??? It seems to me the point it proves is that when the facts don’t match your insinuations, you just change your story around !

As for my own comments here, readers can consider them within the context of my long-standing presence on this website and by what they know of me as a serious researcher and contributor to this message board and website over the last six years. But most importantly by the fact they can double-check the references I give and confirm them for themselves.

But you, anonymous one, show up here - unknown to us - and start to post disparaging comments about a fellow fan and insult anybody that disagrees with you. In this regard, you act very much like Frankie.

The people who use to post on this message board know Frankie for having single-handedly discouraged them from posting anymore. If you had been around a few years back, you would have seen how active this message board was. But then Frankie showed up (on February 24 2004) and started bad-mouthing or downright insulting many of the posters. Don constantly had to delete his posts or else let him ramble on about himself or how great he thought his collection was… Didn’t you notice that hardly anybody else posts here these days ??? Well, you can thank Frankie for that ! And you are simply following in his footsteps.

The only fair point that has been made in any of the posts in this thread is that most scratch-builders of Time Machine models – including Harvey Mayo – are frustratingly slow. And I understand anyone wanting to vent about it. However, there is a difference between that and attempting to slander someone because of it.

[timemachinewells]

Frankie:

I didn’t say anything “about” Chris. I simply quoted his own words as they appeared on his eBay listing. If he doesn’t stand behind them or feels all his text was colored in an attempt to entice potential buyers, that’s his problem. I also pointed to the context and the fact that, if Chris had not been impatient with Harvey and had instead let him finish his model and let the paint on the Tantalus cure instead of taking both with him to Texas right away during a period of high heat, he would have had a perfect model and a perfect Tantalus. All the problems that ensued were a result of that.

Now, as to your other post, did you even bother to double-check any of the statements made or find out the other side of the story ? Of course, you did not.

LEVER

A novice in 2004 ??? Oh my, you had us all fooled ! I do have on record all the statements you made. And if you were that incompetent back then (your assessment, not mine), just how competent can you be now to judge any of this ?

But, let’s be serious here. You claim you didn’t do your homework back then ??? Really ? Yet, you stated in your posts that you saw ALL of Chris’s 3D drawings of the lever before even receiving it ! So you knew EXACTLY what that lever should look like and you admitted in your posts at the time that it was YOU who asked Harvey to CHANGE the design to make the silver parts out of brass !

So, stop making up stories when the facts you wrote yourself contradict what you’re trying to have us believe. You told us repeatedly how great that lever is and now you’re trying to recant because it suits your agenda.

As for “asking Harvey” if Don would make a model or lever, are you serious ??? Why go to Harvey if you want somebody else to make something for you ? That statement makes no sense. Besides, it’s interesting that you conveniently leave out the fact that it was Chris who referred you to Harvey and not to Don.

SUNDIAL

This is getting tiresome ! Don himself told me he knew you were trying to find the sundial at the time (had gotten your email about it) and also told me he had gotten some strange phone calls from an unidentified person trying to know its whereabouts – some guy calling from out of town who claimed he wanted to rent it for a commercial. I wonder who that could be ?

Bottom line is that you knew of Don’s marked interest given he had done that extensive research on it which you read on his website ! It stands to reason that he had more than a passing interest in it and you could have figured - when he declined to reveal its whereabouts - that he wanted it. At that point, you could have asked him right out if he did but it suited you fine to avoid asking him directly because you for sure wanted to have it for yourself. So stop trying to kid anyone about that !

SEVEN MAYO MODELS and more coming…

As I said, I know of seven models and have seen pictures of all seven including yours. The others are in private collections and the owners are not interested in getting involved in all the bickering going on here.

As for Harvey stopping to talk to people after an order, I don’t know about that. I guess it depends how you talk to him. If you call him with insults and threats, I suspect he won’t be too interested in talking to you.

Don’t get me wrong here. I am not trying to justify Harvey’s extreme slowness and yes, I do believe he should keep in touch with his clients on a regular basis.

But I have pointed out earlier that every other Time Machine scratch-builder I know is just as slow. For example, I haven’t heard a word from George Chaides in seven years myself.

Does that make it right ? Of course not. But to suggest that this means they have dishonest intentions is misleading. Just ask Bob Burns how many years he waited to get his model from George Chaides. George visited him in 1982. Bob got his model around 2000. Do the maths. But he DID get it.

And as for you sending lawyer letters etc. to Harvey… For which reason ? Because you insisted on taking delivery of a model before it was completed and now, you’re upset about it and you want Harvey to pay for your mistake ? What a waste of so many people’s time !

It seems to me that lawyers generally have more serious matters to address than a model you should have let Harvey finish in the first place !

Harvey told me that he offered to take your model back and finish it like it was meant to be but that you declined. It seems Frankie – judging from your interminable complaints - that you would much prefer to complain endlessly and finger point rather than have the matter resolved the way it should be and get the model finished the way it should be.

Harvey stated to me that his offer to put the finishing touches on your model still stands.

By the way, you end by saying “Here I am, FOUR years later”. But wait a minute, you started your post by saying “I started my Time Machine collection in 2004” ! So, do you mean that, besides all that, you can’t add and subtract either ?

[timemachinewells]

A SOLUTION

It looks to me like the people posting here are more interested in venting than in seeing their situations resolved. However, if I am mistaken and that you do seriously want a solution, I do have some proposals.

I have talked with Harvey Mayo at length regarding this situation over the last few months and he has reiterated that everyone who has ordered a model from him will indeed receive it. He stated to me that he plans to complete most of his remaining orders this year.

As to Frankie’s model, Harvey has repeated that his offer to put the finishing touches on it stands and that his Tantalus will also be completed.

In this respect, I have suggested – in order to get an impartial record of the procedure – that Don take pictures of the “before” and “after” condition of Frankie’s model if that can be arranged. (I already have shots of Frankie’s model as dated December 9, 2006 – where the model appears to be 95% completed.)

The procedure would go as follows: Frankie would return his model to Don for him to photograph. Harvey would then pick up the model and complete it and bring it back to Don for him to photograph again in its completed state. The model would then be packed in Don’s presence. The packaging would be photographed and the model shipped back to Frankie.

This way there would be an impartial record that shows the model has been completed and returned. His Tantalus will also be completed and photographed the same way.

As to TymerC’s model and Tantalus, since he stated to me in a private email that he no longer wants to have them, I am hereby offering to buy both from him as soon as they are completed and at the price he paid ($2400.)

If anybody else has ordered a model from Harvey, they can contact me and I will bring up their situation with him and will then follow Harvey’s progress and report on it.

[TymerC]

Francois,

Its evident from your "War and Peace" postings that your totally obsessive and thats why I got tired of you e-mailing me to argue...your annoying, tiresome and boring.
You also lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned when you basically called a descent man like Bob Burns a liar yet you sure take Harvey's word on everything he tells you huh??!! Harv's been lying to me for years and you think I'm going to believe anything he says??
I'm quite comfortable sitting back waiting for Frankie's lawsuit/judgement to finalize and take action. As far as my $2400......I find it interesting you want to buy my model and tantalus box AFTER I receive it (like I believe Harv will ever deliver it) yet you're not confident in your 'ol buddy Harv enough to offer me the money NOW and YOU wait for it huh?...lol. I'll never receive it since Harv's word is in question so why are we talking about it? Hey Harv....prove me wrong and deliver it!...that would be interesting but quite improbable.

All I have to say is to everyone reading these posts that if you ever have knowledge of Harvey seeking model work or advertising to please inform me so they can be made aware of his dealings and at least be warned.

I really have nothing further to say to you Francois since I really don't give a rats ass what you think and going back and forth with someone who has nothing to do with any of this in the first place has gotten really tiresome yet you seem to have made yourself Harvey's self appointed Mommy since Harv himself hasn't the spine to deal with this himself. He's found a good patsy in you. I'm not even going to response to any of your stupid opinions about me nor will I even attempt to reply to your remarks since anything I've explained time and time again is twisted and/or you just don't seem to get anything I've written before because you must be dense or braindead. Your welcome to rant and rave all you want since I really don't care about anything further you have to say....and I'm sure no one else does either

[frankie]

Lets start at the beginning:
Sorry my mis-representation of dates was a problem for you.
I was a "novice in 2003 not 2004 as i had said.
Here is the "original Contract " from Harvey.I will leave this for now.That will give you some time to verify that it is the real deal.
I dont believe i said that i had seen Chris 3-d Drawings on the lever before i bought the one from Harvey.It was after i posted that i had one that Don did the update and Chris sent me all the Drawings he had done.I have that email[dated if you like to show that].So for now here is my Un-fore filled contract.

Start up deposit for Time Machine miniature and display box.
Date: 6/9/2003 9:50:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: HarvMayoDesign
Reply To:
To: Fthet

Dear Frank, Per our conversation today on your request to have me build you a Time Machine miniature like the one that was made for the George Pal movie, "The time Machine". This miniature would be, as I call it the Wah Chang model. This is the miniature that Rod Taylor shows to his friends at the beginning of the film. As you know Frank, it is a little less detailed then the full size machine, but this is the true miniature as you see it in the movie. Your miniature will function the same as the full size. The dish will spin, control panel will light, rear light over the drive assembly will come on as well and the engine pods will also light. The lever on the control panel will control all machine functions. I will send you some additional info. In addition to the miniature, I will also build the Tantalus box like the one used in the film, to display the model. The total cost of both pieces will be $6,700, and as the deposit required to start, per our conversation would be $5,000. Balance at completion. Frank, I would appreciate keeping my price for the two pieces confidential. The price I gave you is little lower then normal, for the amount of work involved. But maybe we can do other things in the future, if you are pleased with my work, and I am sure you will be !. Thanks again for your order, Yours Truly, Harvey Mayo , North Hollywood, Calif. 91606-3127