Time Machine Project

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

You may want to leave his ads up as it helps when you file any kind of legal action as he is looking for clients!!!!!!!

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

Anyway,Back in 2003 i gave Harvey 6,500 dollars for a minature and a Tantalus box.After three years i got a mini,incomplete as it was,no rear pod decals,no lamp cage,no cages on the control panel,no red paint on shaft for lamp,and a few other small missing parts.I have yet to see the Tantalus box as i had to live through his son being arrested,water in the basement and other problems that prevented him from working on my stuff.So what do i do i send him all the money so he can devote 100% to my stuff.I send him lobsters for the weekend ,so he can work on my stuff.
So here it is FOUR years later,stiil no communation from Harvey,I have filed a law suit,went to court ,Had Harvey served and am awaitng judgement.So for those of you who are in the same boat ,File and take him to court!And yes Harvey reads this board frequently!!!!!

TymerC · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject:

Hey Frankie,

Cheers to you!! Did you know that he used the same exact lame excuses to me word for word? I would think by now his house should be seen floating down the 5 freeway since he seems to have had the same leak in his home for years now. Please let all of us know what goes on with your suit....inquirying minds want to know. Laughing

Nick · Newbie Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 5

Frank, just read your post about Harvey, and for some reason I heard a little different story from Harvey directly, he told me that he was runing late on your model, and was trying very hard too complete, but he also did not want to ship the model until it was to his satisfaction. A ship date was set up between you and Harvey, even though Harvey was concerned about the quality, and did not want to ship until it was at it's best, you insisted pick-up for the model on a specific date. Harvey told me that he had to call the pick-up agent, and tryed to get a couple more days, before they showed up at his door, Harvey did get the couple of days, but he told me it still was not enought, but he had no choice but to let it go, for you were getting upset, Harvey told me, and so a few details did not get on the model, for you would not give Harvey any more time, I guess you had a special showing for the model, or why would you keep Harvey from doing his best. I am really concerned about everyones need to have something that is not ready, is it so you can complain, after the fact, that is not fair, for Harvey has made some beautiful hand made pieces. So now Frankie your very upset, and I am sure that you are glad TymerC is upset, I guess you both feel better, for you can both gang up on Harvey, and to think were only talking about a model and a box !!. How sad is that, and I am sure that this behavior, does not inspire Havey to perform well !!. Frank, not to worry, TymerC knows other model builders, that are far better, and faster then Harvey, I just hope that I live long enough to see their results??? Nick

TymerC · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

Nick....or should I call you Harvey?

Its just more amusement from Harv...er ..I mean Nick. Regardless I still think your a retard. So this is just about a lousy model and box huh? NO!!!....this is about my $2400!!.....Franks $4000!! and Chris's $5000!!........Plus the other 2 guys that I know of (that hadn't come forward) that have been waiting 9 - 10 years for their products and whatever money Harvey has taken from them!!! ....you moron !!! Harvey sent me the same lame e-mail months ago that my project was almost done too...where is it?.....you seen it?......I doubt it !!! He didn't even have to finish the Tantlus box since we agreed he'd send me the parts and I'd finish it in my woodshop so tell me how long it takes to make a box.... unfinished , inlay parts cut only , that you don't have to finish or upholster!!???!!!!! As for how good the "model god" is.....I've since seen close-ups of his work and being a watchmaker, I'm used to making tiny parts I can say without a doubt I can do better and will!! Also as far as whatever time it takes me is only my concern since I hadn't promised it to anyone, promised any completion dates and especially taken anyone's money!!!
To quote George's friend Filby : "He has all the time in the world"

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

First of all nick is it?
You seem to spend a lot of time talking with Harvey,you seem to know details only he would know.Secondly,I doubt he would tell you any of the details as so many people are pissed off at him.So i must agree with Tymerc and say you are Harvey,As far as running late on my model?
Three years?I paid you all the money up front so you could work on my model and my box.As far as the ship date,That was another 350.00 dollars i paid and you did not secure it in the box.As you recall the first pickup was changed BY YOU to a later date.And you say a few details did not get on the model?It was more than a few.The judge who heard the case says "three years was way to long to wait".You say Harvey has made some beautiful pieces??
Where are those people?
Where are there machines and boxes? As far as ganging up on Harvey,I think it is best if people know what to expect.And don not forget you have a direct quote from Chris Perrotta as well.
So Harvey if you will send me my 6,500 DOLLARS BACK ,I will return your model. You then say "and to think were only talking about a model and a box"In my case it is 6,500 dollars,In Chris Perrottas case it is 5,000 and in Tymerc it is 2,400 a lot more than a model and a box.
So i to hope you live long enough to see the finale of my Law suit ,The communication with the California Attorney General,The Better Business Breau,and one more that i am waiting to se how this ends before i push that button.So in closing [Nick] next time you have a chat,talk about all the angry people out there because of Harvey,and be happy for those who read this and will not be taken in by him.My hope is that the other people who have given money with nothing in returm will speak up.

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

Well Nick,
Seems you have left the building.I got an email from a guy who has been waiting a lot longer than my four years.Seems he gave your dad around 4,000 dollars and has seen nothing.I have asked him to post his story here.Perhaps he will.I now see that at least FIVE people have been taken in by Harvey,I wonder how many more will come forward before you say that we are not ganging up on him and that he has taken our hard earned money with nothing for us to show,There is a law against that you know.The next time you have a "chat" with Harvey ask him why Don does not have the Sundial or the clock from the movie?Ask him how i came to have it.It should make for a quite interestong story.

TymerC · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:

Frankie,

I'm quite aware of the details of that story. In short its a story of money being more important than keeping your friends. I also do hope whomever e-mailed you will come forward.

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

The poor guy he has bee waiting NINE YEARS!!
Can you believe it NINE years!
All Harvey can say is that he wants to make a quality piece.
I know of only three Mayo Models that exist.Would someone,Anyone come forward with proof of a model that this man has built????
To quote that guy Nick,I only hope i live long enough to see someone get a quality piece from Harvey!

TymerC · Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:25 am Post subject:

Frankie,

I don't want to see anyone get a "quality piece" from Harvey....I'd like to see them get their hard earned money back. I've seen closeup pics of Harvey's model and frankly I can't see where the "quality" is. I do know that Bob Burns has one of his models but Harvey even burned his bridges with him from what I've heard.

timemachinewells · promising newcomer Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 23

Hi Frankie,

This is Francois. Even though you already know who I am, I thought I might as well repeat it for those that are new to this board. And, for those who don’t know me, I will tell you that I have been contributing research articles for this website over the past five years and that those articles can be consulted via the directory. I have also been participating in the message board in its many forms and incarnations ever since its inception.

Those who know me also know that I have been seriously researching the design of the Time Machine (in the form in which it is presented in the Pal movie) for about twenty years and have also kept tabs on just about every company, manufacturer and individual that has ever produced models or likenesses of the Time Machine and I have written about many of them.

I have been reading the recent posts about Harvey Mayo here and wish to offer my viewpoint regarding this rather ambiguous discussion (if that term applies at all…) and maybe add some verifiable facts to the comments…

I have been interested in The Time Machine since 1965 when I first saw George Pal’s movie adaptation on TV at age eleven. I started collecting and doing research on it from around 1978 when I came across an article about the discovery and refurbishing of the original prop in Starlog magazine. It was also in that magazine that I was first introduced to the work of Harvey Mayo. An article appearing in the August 1980 issue and written by David Hutchison showcased Harvey’s miniature work. It showed elaborate miniature reproductions of 18th century furniture as well as a stunning rendition of the miniature of the Time Machine as it appeared in the George Pal film. I was in awe. I had no idea until then that a fan had taken his love of the Pal movie that far.

And this, gentlemen, is where I have a problem with several of the comments in your posts, as pertains to the quality of Mr. Mayo’s work. During the eighties and early nineties, I was in contact with the author of the Starlog article, David Hutchison – who was also the science editor for that magazine - and he highly praised Harvey Mayo’s miniatures. Not only did he write a laudatory article on him in Starlog twenty-six years ago, but he also had another write-up about him in his book “Starlog Special Effects II” on page 89.

At the time the Starlog article was written, Harvey worked for WED Enterprises (Disney research and development) who hired him based on the quality of his miniature work after seeing, among other things, his model of the Time Machine. I have a copy of an issue of the “WED-Way” – WED’s internal weekly digest – that again praises Harvey’s talent and displays his miniature work - including his Time Machine model.

A working Time Machine model made by Harvey Mayo was also featured in many documentaries; among them, “the Fantasy Film Worlds of George Pal”, “Time Machine – The Journey Back”, the TV series “Cosmos” hosted by Carl Sagan and the “Back to the Future” making-of documentary hosted by Michael J. Fox.

Everywhere it was shown, it was the subject of praise and amazement. Up to this day, I have not seen a single other model of the Time Machine miniature that could compare to it other than… another Harvey Mayo model. And I say that, having seen MANY other time machine models over the years and having written about several of them on this website.

Since then, I have also seen pictures of other miniature work by Harvey Mayo - not only Time Machine models, but also various pieces of miniature furniture and other props. In every case, I found his work remarkable.

So, I am sorry, gentlemen, but in light of these verifiable facts, when I read claims such as yours, suggesting that the quality of Harvey Mayo’s work is poor, I have to question your statements and your motives.

The truth is, Frankie, that not long ago you were proudly displaying the lever that Harvey made for you, emphasizing that it was the most perfect likeness you had ever seen and that Harvey’s talent was impressive. Yet now you change your position about Harvey primarily because Harvey didn’t have time to put the finishing touches on your model ??? Because, let’s be clear here: Your entire argument is based on a problem regarding some finishing touches on a model that was indeed otherwise completed and delivered to you. Seems to me that it would have been wiser just to let him finish the work – given that, by your own admission, the model was almost done - instead of coming here to complain about it.

As to your reference to Chris Perotta, you well know that Chris received his model and Tantalus several years ago and proudly showed them off since then. His model was shown on this website and others and admired by many over the years. You also know that Chris eventually decided to sell off his collection (since you acquired much of it) and sold both his Mayo miniature and Tantalus at no loss on eBay, not that long ago.

Furthermore, I find rather ironic that you should bring up the matter of the sundial, which you knew quite well was an item that Don Coleman dearly wanted to have and which you managed to purchase behind his back, then proudly announced the “fait accompli” on this message board – to Don’s dismay. Whatever accessory role Harvey may have played in this episode seems rather pale in comparison, given it is you who orchestrated it !

And, as for Harvey Mayo’s lateness in filling orders, it has been known for some time that his pace is desperately slow. Therefore, I can fully understand anybody’s frustration over the fact that Harvey takes a very long time to make his models. However, I have not come across anybody else that has produced any faster a quality working model of the miniature based on a profound knowledge of the design of the Time Machine acquired over many years. One really has to put things in perspective here: His first working miniature of the Time Machine dates from 1965 (forty-one years ago) and, even then, a reporter was so impressed by that model that he wrote an article in a local newspaper praising his talent.

In conclusion, your many posts filled with innuendo and derogatory comments regarding the quality of his work simply don't match up with verifiable facts.

TymerC · Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:57 am Post subject:

Mr Timemachinewells,

You just know I’m not going to stand by and remain quiet about your rather bias post. I keep hearing about all this great work Harvey has done yet in over 20 years of knowing him personally not once have I ever seen anything he’s done first hand. Sure the pics in Starlog look great….that’s how I met Harvey. But anyone who works in the motion picture industry knows darn well anything can look good on film or have you ever seen props made for films up close? My comment questioning the quality of his work is well founded based on the close-up pics that were sent to me of his model.. I’ll be glad to forward if you want, one pic in particular of the light cages on the console that were poorly soldered and the cage ends just hanging around the base. The chair being too light and the carving detail on the side not consistent to the Chang model. Sure, anything can look poor the more you magnify it but these are not microscopic details I’m talking bout.

I just don’t understand why you defend Harvey the way you do. I can only come to the conclusion that you’ve :
1) Have never given him any money
2) Never done business with him
3) Never had to go thru receiving his weekly phone calls begging for money with one of his sad stories…the same stories used on Frankie
4) Never had long frustrating conversations with him concerning your project you’ve paid for and hearing his endless lame excuses and unprofessional reasons why hes not done.
5) Never asked to see how far he’s done on your project and been refused always. (don’t know about you but motion picture companies want to see the status of work they hire and pay for and would never put up with this)
6) Never actually seen anything he’s made first hand and only going by pictures and magazine articles.
7) Never been taken advantage of by someone you thought you could trust

Bottom line Mr Wells….all the talent in the world doesn’t mean squat when one of your main “talents” is using your reputation as a “model god” to extract money from honest hard working people. In your last post you seem to be blind of that very fact and just dwell on his skills and never once mention your disappointment he’s so dishonest. ..why is that Mr Wells? Why do you “hero worship” someone who doesn’t deserve anyone’s admiration because of his bad ethics. Are you honestly going to sit there and think its ok for him to take money and deliver nothing? I question why you don’t mention any of this in your post…why is that? That’s like admiring a counterfeiter for his skill as an engraver and lets forget about what he’s doing illegally. Even a judge agrees with us. I know a lot of talented skilled people that I have had the privilege of knowing and are more talented than 10 Harveys put together….they just have never had magazine articles written about them, made a Time Machine Model or taken anyone’s money! I’ve also seen these peoples work FIRST HAND since they have no problem showing their work to ANYONE. Makes you kinda wonder why Harvey won’t show his work to anyone but a magazine or job interviewer. Makes you kinda wonder why someone so talented won’t show their work to anyone first hand especially the customers PAYING HIM. Anyone with as much talent as you think Harvey has should be happy and anxious to showoff his work …to me it makes sense and a good advertising campaign. I also take exception on what you call "his lateness in filling orders" ..you have any proof hes even started one?
One other thing about his "profound knowledge" of the design of the Time Machine.....where do you think he got alot of his profound knowledge from?...maybe you should ask Don, Chris, and especially Bob Burns who he also 'burned" if you pardon the pun. Harvey also knew Don wanted those props because Dons the one who found them but made the mistake of telling him about them! All Harvey needed to do was call his "friend" Don and let him know they were for sale...instead he chose the MONEY route....funny you don't mention that.
So Mr Wells…….you go right ahead and defend and admire Harvey. You keep worshipping the “Model God”. Yes you keep right on disagreeing with at least 6 people whose money Harvey has (far as we know)..we are all wrong and you are right. Maybe by the possibly the 20th person who has issues with Harvey will come forward that you will finally agree with us.
Sadly Harvey could be admired and remembered for his work far after he’s gone….instead he chooses to be remembered for bilking over $10,000 from honest people who never did anything to him except trust him.

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

Wow,
Two terrific responses.
Thank you Francois for your back ground information.
Your first seeing of a Mayo Model was in 1978.I believe that that is one of the three he has ever made.So that would be one every Ten years,Not a great record by any means.It is my understanding that "Someone" was loaned a set of Time Machine prints that were confidential that showed up in one of the magazines you speak of.Can you tell me more on that?You speak of Harveys talents in the 1980,it seems his skills have left him since then.You then speak of the Lever Harvey made,Yes i was proud untill a few of YOU people here[who know more than i] pointed out the flaws in my lever[Thank you Don,Chris and Ady]after looking at all the pictures Don posted[and all the examples that you people gave me] i see my lever is flawed.Don then sold one on Ebay for a third of what i paid.Next you bring up the finishing touches of the model i received.First it was three years[do you think that is enough time ?or should i be like Mr.----s who has been waiting nine years?]
These finishing touches that were missing include,No Rosettes,No lamp cage,No cages on the console,Console lites that have exposed wires,no side pod decals,A warped Dish,Missing screws an other Hardware.Plus the day i received the model,I had it shipped same day by a private airline,The smell of the Stain on the base was so fresh it was done one or two days before.So here is a man i gave 6,500 dollars Four years ago for a machine and a box and all i have received is a 3/4 done model.Four years Francois,Four years.
Next you move on to Chris Perrotta,Chris has become a good friend and a savior through all of this.He has declined to post on this board but you can find a direct qoute from him in one of Tymerc posts.His model on Dons site remainded incomplete for many years.True you speak of one instance where Chris was satisfied but there are many more instances where he felt cheated,He was cheated out of Five Thousand dollars by Harvey and there are a few more stories he could tell you.And lastly you bring up the Sundial,How did i know Don wanted it?
Harvey told me Don knew where it was,He told me Don had rented it a few times.I sent Don an email to ask him where it was but he wouldnt tell me.[fair enough]He never told me he was going to buy it.In steps Harvey,He says I will go to THe House of Props,Talk to the owner[phil] and for a fee[400.00 dollars]i will clean it and pack it ,and send it to you.Of course i paid for the shipping.So tell me how did i orchestrate this deal?
After the sundial i was growing impatent with Harvey as i had paid him all the money up front to work on my Two pices only.So i assume for him to buy more time he then told me of the clock.I again asked him why Don did not want this as it was a movie prop.His reply was that Don just wanted it to sit there.So again [for a fee]Harvey would talk to the owner,clean it ,fix it and ship it to me.But this time i called Norman myself and bought the clock.
So here we are four years later and i am seeing more and more unhappy people.I guess my first question to you would be How many Harvey Mayo built Time Machine models have you seen?
Can you name the and who owns them?
Secondly ,Has he ever built anything for you?
Thirdly,Have you ever given him 2,000,3,000.4.000.5,000,6,500 dollars and have waited anywhere between Three years and nine years and received nothing?
And lastly i have a lot of pictures of the unfinished model.I can send them to you if you like.I can send the to Don for all to see and then people can make there own judgement.
So again Thank you for your post and all the insites and information that you present.
But as others here have posted Harvey has left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.I think it is a waste of time to defend him as we have had to deal with him and lost our money.I believe if you had done the same you would feel differently.
In closing let me ask you about an "Original spare end cap to the pod on the original machine"
I heard Bob Burns had one at on time. Do you know what happened to it?
Do you think if someone had it they would want to sell it??
Again
Thank you.

frankie · Master Temporal Mechanic Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

well well well,
I did get an email from one who thanked me for the warning and WILL NOT be seeing about a Harvey Mayo model.I have also spoken to two others and have given information about the filing of a law suit.
Now my question to Nick[are you Harveys son or Harvey in disguise?]
What do you have to say now?
And to Francois,
I left some pretty wide open questions for you to answer.I hope that you will.So by all means please share with the readers here the answers to my questions.How did those prints wind up in a magazine and was there another end cap for the pods?
This thread has had over 500 views ,i would think there would be some responses or some questions.
Please feel free to ask or post your own story.

timemachinewells · promising newcomer Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 23

Firstly, TymerC one only has to compare your posts with mine to see who is posting biased comments. I am not defending Harvey Mayo but merely stating the verifiable facts and questioning some of the potentially slanderous statements you make under the cover of anonymity.

What I call into question are your repeated statements to the effect that Harvey Mayo’s work is poor and that you could do much better. One has to wonder why you would think this, given you admit to having a model on order from him ! Do you mean to say that, although you find his work poor, you decided to give that “poor fellow” a chance anyway ?

I find strange you would claim to have “known Harvey for twenty years yet have not once seen any of his work”. And yet again, in spite of this, you placed an order with him for a model ?

That, of course, begs the question: If you can make such a better model as you claim and know so many people who can do ten times better, why in the world would you commission him to make one for you ?

Unless you did find his work superb (why else would you have placed an order ?), but now, for other motives, are attempting to discredit his talent.

Because, one thing that you seem to make an effort not to differentiate is the difference between recognizing an artist’s talent and being frustrated by his slowness to complete a project.

You state in response to my reference to the Starlog article: “But anyone who works in the motion picture industry knows darn well anything can look good on film”. True, but David Hutchison went to meet Harvey Mayo personally at his studio, examined the miniatures close-up and took pictures of them himself to report his findings in the ensuing article. According to him, the photographs were a true depiction of what he saw.

I have a letter dated February 10 1995 from David Hutchison stating to me: “From time to time, I run across people with a special fascination for Pal’s Time Machine, but no one with the model expertise of Harvey Mayo or the Scottish team”. That statement made fifteen years after the article was published and, while he was editor of Starlog Magazine

One of your comments refers to “one pic in particular of the light cages on the console that were poorly soldered and the cage ends just hanging around the base.” Yes, I have a copy of that picture. But I also know that this particular model had been damaged after leaving Harvey’s studio. And I have other close-ups of Time Machine models as well as miniature furniture showing clear detail of his models and they are impressive.

As to your comment, “The chair being too light and the carving detail on the side not consistent to the Chang model.”, I’m surprised you forgot to mention that he didn’t get the order of the console lamps wrong like Wah Chang did… and he didn’t have the wires running outside of the railings like Wah Chang had them and he didn’t make the dish spin using stop-motion animation like Wah Chang did… All in all, that his model overall is perhaps better than the one Wah Chang made…

Besides, anyone who knows Harvey’s work would be quick to point out that, most of the time, Harvey personalizes his creations. No two are alike. For example, the model that appeared in the many documentaries mentioned earlier combined elements from the miniature and the full-size model. This does not detract in any way from the beauty of the final product.

And again, show me a better model of the miniature !

Wah Chang himself (whom Harvey often consulted) kept pictures of Harvey’s models on file and even used a picture of a model by Harvey made in 1966, which he mistakenly represented as his own in several publications – including a book about his own work. Curious that you find so many things wrong with Harvey’s models yet that Wah Chang himself mistook a Mayo model for his own work !

And when you write “where do you think he got alot of his profound knowledge from?...maybe you should ask Don, Chris, and especially Bob Burns”, it just shows how little you know the history of these people and when they actually met.

To be specific, the first time Don ever came across a Harvey Mayo model was at a show in the seventies, well before they ever met. As to Chris Perotta, I know exactly when they met because Harvey called me at the time to mention he had seen a model displayed at a local video shop and got in touch with the person who had made it. It turned out having been made by Chris. That was in 1996. True, Chris, Don and Harvey exchanged information from time to time since then, but Harvey had done his research decades before that. And why would you even mention Bob Burns ? Harvey did restoration work for him in 1976 – eleven years after he started making Time Machine models. And the one that Bob Burns bought was completed before he even met him.

I would suggest you really start double-checking your “facts” before blasting away at others who may have a different viewpoint.

And when you state: “I also take exception on what you call "his lateness in filling orders" ..you have any proof hes even started one?” Well, it seems to me there is plenty.

I imagine Chris’model or even Frankie’s incomplete model seems to suggest that yes, he’s started at least a few. I have also seen another model made by him in the last few years and I also know of yet another model currently being delivered to a collector friend of mine, but I otherwise don’t keep track of his clients any more than I do of yours.

Let’s turn the tables around for a moment: You say you are a watch repairer. Have we any proof here that you really are or that your work is any good ? And should one therefore call into question that you are ? …or the quality of your work ? …and insult (like you do) anyone who posted here to defend it ?

Yes, I am indeed aware that Mr. Mayo has outstanding and overdue orders and I have made a point of this in my earlier posts as well as the previous one – should you care to read them over. I also pointed out that others are in the same position. But there is a difference between this and making personal (and unproven) assumptions as to dishonest motives or intentions, such as you do at length and then attempting to denigrate Mr. Mayo’s artistic merit in order to make your point.